This article is within the scope of WikiProject California, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of California on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CaliforniaWikipedia:WikiProject CaliforniaTemplate:WikiProject CaliforniaCalifornia
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Holidays, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of holidays on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HolidaysWikipedia:WikiProject HolidaysTemplate:WikiProject HolidaysHolidays
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Library of Congress, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Library of Congress on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Library of CongressWikipedia:WikiProject Library of CongressTemplate:WikiProject Library of CongressLibrary of Congress
This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject 20th Century Studios, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 20th Century Studios and its affiliated companies on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.20th Century StudiosWikipedia:WikiProject 20th Century StudiosTemplate:WikiProject 20th Century Studios20th Century Studios
This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.
It is requested that a photograph of iPic/AVCO theater exterior in Westwood be included in this article to improve its quality.
Text and/or other creative content from Die Hard was copied or moved into Die Hard (soundtrack). The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.
A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The reception section and its summary in the lead currently focus on its mixed/mediocre initial reception and subsequent reappraisal. What seems to be missing from that summary is the fact that it received an A+ CinemaScore and was considered a surprise success, especially considering how negative coverage of Willis was before release. Both seem to point to a very positive audience reception even at the time. These facts are mentioned in the article, but the overall narrative seems to contradict them. Over the last few years there have been plenty of films with mixed critical reception but overwhelming audience scores (notably Venom, the Mario movie or Dead Men Tell No Tales), so it shouldn't be that hard to include that in the article. jonas (talk) 03:31, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Literally the first sentence of the critical reception section: "Initial critical reviews of Die Hard were mixed.[43] Audiences reacted more positively; polls by the market research firm CinemaScore found that audiences gave it an average rating of "A+" on an A+ to F scale."
LIterally the second and third sentence of the box office section: " It was considered a successful debut with a high per-theater average gross.[70] The Los Angeles Times said that the late change in advertising focus and diminishing popularity for action films should have worked against Die Hard. Instead, positive reviews and the limited release had made it a "must-see" film."
I'd added List of Christmas films to a See also section, which is where it obtains most of its views. The list is also linked as 'Christmas film' in the lede but this does not indicate that the link goes to a list of such films. Adding it as a See also item, linked to the full title of the list, gives readers a clear option. This was reverted.
Also moved the Christmas film mention in the lede to its own paragraph as a major topic shift from the long paragraph it is added onto at the end. This was also reverted. Die Hard is well known (and voted on) as a major Christmas film, even if some illogically debate it (have they seen the film?, the Christmas theme is obvious throughout). Burying the information deep into the lede when it could either moved to at least the second paragraph or at least be separated as the final lede paragraph, seems to hide-in-unplain sight a major fact about this film and overall topic of Christmas films. I'd ask that both the See also mention be returned and consideration about the separate lede paragraph or a move of the data higher in the lede. Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:17, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Mentioning its consideration as a Christmas film in the lede is fine, but this is just a trivial aspect of the movie (with one paragraph in the body devoted to it) that it doesn't need to be broken out as its own lede paragraph.
This is not to say the lede order right now is in a good spot. The last paragraph starts by discussing it one of the best action films, then moves on to its legacy, and then tacks on the Christmas angle with the "best Christmas film" aspect, which is weird. I have notice that the claim "best Christmas films" is NOT supported in the body by any means (at best, its coming out of the 30th anniversary promotional material). Thus, I am going to rework that as part of the first paragraph, to at least keep that it is considered a Christmas film, but dropping "best Christmas film" as that's just not supported at all. Masem (t) 13:36, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Masem, a higher mention in the lede seems appropriate. Although Empire Magazine conducted a 2015 poll which named this the best Christmas film ever, agreed that yes, that doesn't seem lede-worthy (as it is presently written) as a single poll but could be mentioned later on the page. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:48, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The debate over it being a Christmas film or not is basically a joke conversation, it is absolutely not for the opening paragraph of the article. The polls identified for use in the article also heavily favor it NOT being a Christmas film, making Kryn's OR "Die Hard is well known (and voted on) as a major Christmas film, even if some illogically debate it" to justify moving it false.
This is how it used to be "Die Hard has been critically re-evaluated and is now considered one of the greatest action films, and is also often named one of the best Christmas films." It's been moved and bloated out over the years. And yes it is supported in the body text that it's been highlighted as a top Christmas film.Darkwarriorblake (talk) 13:52, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I see now where the "best christmas film" stuff is supported, though I would have kept those parts together. Regardless, I have figured out a better placement for the original text without having to break it off as its own paragraph, breaking off instead its legacy aspect. — Masem (t) 15:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As DWB points out, it's not factually treated as a Christmas film so it shouldn't be too high in the lede compared to "action", for example, but it should be mentioned. Masem (t) 12:40, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's been placed ahead of it being added to the national registry, its sequels, its spin off media, and its influence on the film industry. Which is where it was during its FA nomination as well. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 13:03, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Masem has also left a mention of it taking place on Christmas Eve in the opening paragraph. Frankly you've been more than accommodated in your efforts to over focus on the Christmas genre, especially with the aforementioned issues with the 'facts' you used to support your position. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 13:08, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think it would be beneficial to add in a hidden note after action film in the opening sentence that says something along the lines of "Do not add Christmas. Any addition will be reverted". That seems to be the spot most people keep adding onto so there should be some kind of acknowledgement that edits to the sentence aren't welcome, otherwise it will just keep happening. Just a thought. – zmbro(talk) (cont)01:12, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
level-5 vital article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
